When my parents gave me similar wisdom, I used to be the one to scoff at them and say that none of the practical stuff matters in eternity (but I did get the boring but useful accounting degree only as a “just in case” which ended up being wise!). Funny how hitting my thirties right when the pandemic started made me realize just how right they were/are. One of my biggest struggles with God was my confusion that all the doors he seemed to be opening were for a relatively ordinary life, and not going to that trendy ministry retreat school like I wanted to. I am grateful I don’t struggle with him in that way anymore because my greatest relationships and growth have come through this wild, precious, ordinary life. Contrary to what 20-27 year old me thought, it actually DOES matter to Jesus.
I’m taking a sabbatical from my engineering career to attend seminary with a scholarship (and my mortgage paid off). My pastor was careful in his encouragement and used the word “bi-vocational” during our conversations about this next step. The church (and the world) need wise and healthy leaders to go the distance, and I hear that message in this post.
I do not believe there is any one-size-fits-all answer to this question. Perhaps the answer is to go to trade school, or perhaps the answer is to go to a traditional university and double major. The extra major could be accomplished perhaps with one extra semester, or perhaps by not having a minor. (Minors are pretty worthless from a hiring standpoint.) Perhaps the answer is to study in another country, where costs can be considerably lower. Perhaps the answer is to take longer to complete your degree, but have a paying job at the same time, so you can pay for some of those classes rather than relying on loans. There are a couple advantages to all these other options for those seeking to enter the ministry. 1) You can go to seminary later in life, perhaps at the expense of your denomination, but you will probably be required to have a B.A./B.S. in order to do so. 2) More women than men have traditional college degrees, and many of those women want to date and/or marry someone who also has a traditional college degree. Sure, if you meet someone in person, you can hear their full story and understand why they didn't attend college. But when you're finding dates based on checkboxes in an app, and you can select for only those with college degrees, there is practical benefit to having that degree. I hate to put it so bluntly, but this is the world of apps we live in. I have never found those apps particularly appealing myself, but a lot of people now marry someone they met that way.
I think this is certainly good advice for some people but what we really need is to encourage people to develop discernment rather than taking generalized advice.
Personally, I like the idea of learning woodworking, but I'm not very physically inclined and there's a good chance I'd be a subpar woodworker. I'm more academically gifted and the world probably benefits more from me doing mind-based work than making mediocre furniture.
The key is to help kids make informed decisions about school based on their life circumstances and giftings rather than letting the world tell them what's best for them.
Something I’ve mentioned a lot recently is my wish that someone had sat me down while I was in college (a professor in my area of study, por ejemplo) and talked me through what my work opportunities would be with the degree I was getting. I thankfully managed to find one of the few jobs available to someone with my degree, though it *was* ministry work and left me fairly well poor much of the time (another issue that can occur in ministry settings). Now though, I’ve found a job cleaning buildings at a university so I can study for free and add an education cert (plus additional endorsements) on to my current degree and giving it some practical value in the economy of my city/region.
For those looking at maybe going back to school - check local universities for tuition remission programs to see if you can get a job and crank out some evening studies courses if you need a particular degree
As a former youth pastor (who didn’t go to Bible school) and an employee at a Bible School currently (I work in Admissions), I have some thoughts. Honestly, I bet the roles of bi-vocational pastors is going to increase in this country. I have steered people away from my school because it didn’t seem like, based on their stories, that God was sending them to college. I have offered certificates after they get their trade going, as we need Christian nurses, electricians, and more.
For those that want to be pastors, they, in my opinion, should go to Bible school BUT they should also do something else right out of college to have spiritual formation. Theory of mine that people become spiritual leaders at 22 and then never grow, causing people to publicly fall later on. It’s hard for them to lead people if they don’t know what it’s like for the vast majority of congregations!
I agree with your premise here. But there's also actually a growing clergy crisis and shortage of new pastors available. The average age of a pastor in the US is getting close to 60. We need more solid, well trained (seminary?) church leaders. Yes they need real-life experience, but they also need to understand theology, church history, practical ministry skills, etc. The harvest is great but the laborers are few.
I will say that it feels like I wasted my 20’s pursuing the vanity side of church ministry. I wanted it so badly that I recoiled and mocked those who wanted a normal life. Now that’s what I mostly do and it took a bit to get to a 60% level of being okay with it. I still struggle with wanting to be famous and keep giving it to the Lord. I still struggle with wanting that mushy ministry job but, my ministry can be ordinary for the people in my neighborhood where more than likely, they get overlooked by us church goers. More community grill outs, block parties and making friends. That’s what we need to want. More Bible studies and prayer times around a table and less big packed out stadiums. Love this word Andy. Thank you.
When my parents gave me similar wisdom, I used to be the one to scoff at them and say that none of the practical stuff matters in eternity (but I did get the boring but useful accounting degree only as a “just in case” which ended up being wise!). Funny how hitting my thirties right when the pandemic started made me realize just how right they were/are. One of my biggest struggles with God was my confusion that all the doors he seemed to be opening were for a relatively ordinary life, and not going to that trendy ministry retreat school like I wanted to. I am grateful I don’t struggle with him in that way anymore because my greatest relationships and growth have come through this wild, precious, ordinary life. Contrary to what 20-27 year old me thought, it actually DOES matter to Jesus.
Thank you for writing this! 🥹
I’m taking a sabbatical from my engineering career to attend seminary with a scholarship (and my mortgage paid off). My pastor was careful in his encouragement and used the word “bi-vocational” during our conversations about this next step. The church (and the world) need wise and healthy leaders to go the distance, and I hear that message in this post.
I do not believe there is any one-size-fits-all answer to this question. Perhaps the answer is to go to trade school, or perhaps the answer is to go to a traditional university and double major. The extra major could be accomplished perhaps with one extra semester, or perhaps by not having a minor. (Minors are pretty worthless from a hiring standpoint.) Perhaps the answer is to study in another country, where costs can be considerably lower. Perhaps the answer is to take longer to complete your degree, but have a paying job at the same time, so you can pay for some of those classes rather than relying on loans. There are a couple advantages to all these other options for those seeking to enter the ministry. 1) You can go to seminary later in life, perhaps at the expense of your denomination, but you will probably be required to have a B.A./B.S. in order to do so. 2) More women than men have traditional college degrees, and many of those women want to date and/or marry someone who also has a traditional college degree. Sure, if you meet someone in person, you can hear their full story and understand why they didn't attend college. But when you're finding dates based on checkboxes in an app, and you can select for only those with college degrees, there is practical benefit to having that degree. I hate to put it so bluntly, but this is the world of apps we live in. I have never found those apps particularly appealing myself, but a lot of people now marry someone they met that way.
Great thoughts.
I think this is certainly good advice for some people but what we really need is to encourage people to develop discernment rather than taking generalized advice.
Personally, I like the idea of learning woodworking, but I'm not very physically inclined and there's a good chance I'd be a subpar woodworker. I'm more academically gifted and the world probably benefits more from me doing mind-based work than making mediocre furniture.
The key is to help kids make informed decisions about school based on their life circumstances and giftings rather than letting the world tell them what's best for them.
Great points. ❤️
Something I’ve mentioned a lot recently is my wish that someone had sat me down while I was in college (a professor in my area of study, por ejemplo) and talked me through what my work opportunities would be with the degree I was getting. I thankfully managed to find one of the few jobs available to someone with my degree, though it *was* ministry work and left me fairly well poor much of the time (another issue that can occur in ministry settings). Now though, I’ve found a job cleaning buildings at a university so I can study for free and add an education cert (plus additional endorsements) on to my current degree and giving it some practical value in the economy of my city/region.
For those looking at maybe going back to school - check local universities for tuition remission programs to see if you can get a job and crank out some evening studies courses if you need a particular degree
Agreed. This is one of many reasons I'm grateful for my Amish heritage. 😂
As a former youth pastor (who didn’t go to Bible school) and an employee at a Bible School currently (I work in Admissions), I have some thoughts. Honestly, I bet the roles of bi-vocational pastors is going to increase in this country. I have steered people away from my school because it didn’t seem like, based on their stories, that God was sending them to college. I have offered certificates after they get their trade going, as we need Christian nurses, electricians, and more.
For those that want to be pastors, they, in my opinion, should go to Bible school BUT they should also do something else right out of college to have spiritual formation. Theory of mine that people become spiritual leaders at 22 and then never grow, causing people to publicly fall later on. It’s hard for them to lead people if they don’t know what it’s like for the vast majority of congregations!
Thanks for the post!
I agree with your premise here. But there's also actually a growing clergy crisis and shortage of new pastors available. The average age of a pastor in the US is getting close to 60. We need more solid, well trained (seminary?) church leaders. Yes they need real-life experience, but they also need to understand theology, church history, practical ministry skills, etc. The harvest is great but the laborers are few.
I LOVE this so much. Thanks for sharing the gift of sanity.
I will say that it feels like I wasted my 20’s pursuing the vanity side of church ministry. I wanted it so badly that I recoiled and mocked those who wanted a normal life. Now that’s what I mostly do and it took a bit to get to a 60% level of being okay with it. I still struggle with wanting to be famous and keep giving it to the Lord. I still struggle with wanting that mushy ministry job but, my ministry can be ordinary for the people in my neighborhood where more than likely, they get overlooked by us church goers. More community grill outs, block parties and making friends. That’s what we need to want. More Bible studies and prayer times around a table and less big packed out stadiums. Love this word Andy. Thank you.